I think you are crossing cables with the whole shooting and representation approach. Not one bit that goes thru a machine is an actual physical event. It's all a representation. Numbers, text, everything in a computer is representation.

Games try to simulate certain aspects of life, like having a world, physics, characters, the concept of life and death, etc. It's all a representation so I see no point in throwing that in.

In Neocron you could say that the controls are quite basic and that the shooting is fixed. From there you can start dividing the genre. In games like PlanetSide, FoM, etc, you have full control over the shooting. I see that as the main distinction among MMO shooters. Of course the camera too but that is obvious.


Anyway, that's how I see it.

Re to Taiko : I know that u didn't took side, and i don't want discutions to be fights, I olny try to find the truth or something like that.

U made an axiom i guess anyway in the first topic u posted there, i said thanks because the FPS notion is something that is aquiered for me since i played doom on link when i was something like 12 years old and I was thinking of the poor green guy that takes rockets in the eyes and dies on the neck all the time, and if John Carmack was dead he would come in zombie to eat some brains. Oo

Re general : FPS comes from :

Doom -> doom like -> quake like -> FPS

The therm generallised to FPS when the Carmack's Team begain to have concurence in this exact type of game i mean, and that u know that i mean,(ex : doom series, quake series, UT series, Farcry series, halo, even Hexen) not because RPG begain to use ranged weapons and/or first person view, after it may have been vampirized by promoters as its done in all the directions to sell, but its not the truth or my problem.

Its not from "put anything else here" -> "anywthing else" -> FPS

The doom mechenics is a basis of the FPS games that followed.

RPG can come from games as "Alice in the wonderland" a very old game style where u type keywords to acheive actions, or other games of the type, i didn't really follow the RPG evolution since i was fully on the FPS genre.

I remind that i don't critiquize the site politic, and the awesome thing is that u did precise what type of game it is just at the right of the game.

About the hybrids yes, its another question, about the shooting mod, there can't be a FPS with auto aim to shoot mechanics.
But for the opposite, for example games called RPGs like morrowind that have a Doom like shooting mod we can call it both maybe because it fills the FPS conditions, and it fills the RPG conditions.

About Dark Messiah, for me its nothing more that a medieval style FPS, and a RPG for its style, as DOOM can be, its true, and most likely as Hexen was,(and as all the RPG might be ), In its working it really have everything of a FPS, the really one road possible path, the attack mod, its even made on the engine made for half life 2 called source engine or a rework of it.

I don't try to call all the games i like as FPS I m just an acharned of the detail, and i have a good memory, and when not, the net is my friend(and yes im really not modest).

All that can bring more confusion, i will be cool and add even more saying the word : real time strategy, but one thing on its time, lets resolve a point at once together, and lets forget the one of this paragraph please, pleeeaaase.

I m a passionated. It can increase some dificulties or removing them, anyway in a general kind, its a pain for me to explain what i think

I don't think doom is a base since there was plenty of first person shooters before doom. Also the 2 main engines back in the days were the Build engine (Duke nukem, etc) and Quake engine.
I also don't see why a game with strong RPG elements can't be a FPS. Every single game has some RPG elements to it.
Im thinking about system shock for example. I think that's a good example of the first hybrids. I think of it as a nice FPS with strong RPG elements.

Since this is getting really idealistic I don't see a reason to go on wit this so let's all just wait for huxley to come out and enjoy life while that happens.

Aye, we can add pebbles to both sides of the scale all day and it will always be tilted ever so slightly.

In saying that, I agree. Let's just wait for that "persistant online multiplayer with reticule aimed control bursted shooting and some role playing" game called Huxley.

Of course, i don't say that a MMOFPS can't have strong RPG elements, if i said, that i was wrong, still i won't leave my point of view about the shooting mode but its not the question now, it could be a really really good thing to can have some breaks from shooting all the time and being able staying loged on a MMOFPS without being a free frag , I will really enjoy it, we can't actually do that in a game as wolfeinstein ET .

Sorry if i forgot to mention the good old Duke Nukem, and i forgot to precise that i was talking about appelations maybe, it was anyway associated as a Doom like, i may be wrong, but it was how i saw it in the game magazines, and the internet when I got it, the appelation may have been bent, or could be bend now, i don't know, anyway its the conception of the things that i think right and true.

Without being pejorative and not saying Duke Nukem is a sub-brand of Doom or anything like that, i think its was made like that because Doom was more knowed by a large public.

I will really like when MMOFPS will rise and shine , we are at this time maybe, or it already begain , the games of my dream could be near my hand, or ours.