Easy as Advanced Algorithms

Written by bryan   
Thursday, 20 December 2007

As a kid, I used to dream of making my own video game. I remember at one point I grabbed my tiny notebook and started writing down my ideas. When I was finished, I kicked back on my beanbag with a satisfied grin on my face thinking that somehow, one day, it would actually all come together. I suppose as a kid I had a problem with mixing reality with wishful thinking and delusions of grandeur. 10 years later, here I am sitting behind my computer typing about my lethargic pursuit. My dusty notebook lost, probably tucked away somewhere underneath an old cartridge of Duck Hunt. I think it all abruptly stopped when I found out I wasn’t smart enough to figure out what the hell a preprocessor was.

I’ve realized that talking about game development is much less dry than actually DOING game development. I’ve found a new respect for game developers after researching the struggles they go through in finalizing a product. Just hearing about the multitude of problems they are faced with and overcome on a daily basis makes me wonder, “maybe they were born with computer chips in their brains…”

Just to skim the surface and show the community some of these problems game developers run into, I’ve spoke with two independent developers working with the rare MMOFPS genre and asked them a single question:

"As an independent game developer, what has been the most notable struggle towards a solid product?"



Marko Diekman - Producer, Face of Mankind "Rebirth":

 "Well, we started development back in 2001 and "finished" in 2006 when we
released Face of Mankind commercially. I'd also like to add that an MMO is never really
finished, and at that point FoM definitely wasn't. The biggest struggle was to survive this
long development period without any income whatsoever. The financial
struggle has always been the worst. It hung like a sword above our heads,
always ready to fall down and destroy everything we've built up.

It's also very difficult to find the right compromise between the time and
resources you have available and the quality of your work. You just can't do
everything as professionally as Blizzard can. Once you understand this,
there's actually a good chance you might bring your development to an end,
what we luckily achieved. Many independent MMO developers don't even reach
beta, not to speak of retail. That would be my tip for other studios. Be aware
of your limitations.

Besides the organizational and financial struggles, there are, of course,
technical difficulties as well. An MMO is the most complex, hard to craft,
painful piece of game software. Where normal games end, problems just begin
with MMOs. Technically it was very difficult to implement the rather unique
game design of Face of Mankind. It had to be extremely "free" when it comes to
player choices, promote true ongoing role-play. To boot, the fighting part was
never supposed to become minor.

 The most often revised feature was our mission system, which was a real pain
to get right. And to be honest, it never did. It started as a very
open, completely player-made system where players even reviewed and
evaluated the mission result. The problem with that system was that there
were no game mechanics in place to evaluate the actions of the mission team,
and for a game to be fun you need such mechanics. There must be some
features for players to see how well they are doing.

The mission system went through some revisions and ended in a completely
modular mission objective type design. Players were able to put together the
mission they wanted by adding freely editable objectives based on measurable
mission events. To bring this story to an end, it ended with a compromise we
had to do for balancing reasons.

Anyway, we've learned from our mistakes and are now trying to do it right
with Face of Mankind: Rebirth. It won't be perfect, but an evolutionary step
in the right direction. :-) "




"StateofShock" - Developer, Lost Colony

"When you have a company, such as Microsoft, that basically runs the desktop industry, our schedule can face setbacks based on that one single company. For instance, we were all set for Vista and with DirectX 10 support, but that changed when most of our gamers made the switch
back to XP using DirectX 9.0c due to Vista problems.

 The future is DirectX 10, but this recent setback isn't good for the
industry. We have to rely on what Microsoft and/or Apple does. Support
for Mac has been easy, especially with the new Leopard OS X. We haven't
seen the amount of problems with Mac as we do with Microsoft.

Another problem we faced was game engine support. We usually find the
bugs first and report them to the company that made the game engine.
Unfortunately, they are slow on resolving these critical bugs. They are
proactive, but very slow on updates. This is frustrating because our
game relies on the engine as much as it relies on the OS maker (Microsoft).

On average, it usually takes 3 to 6 months for the game engine company
to roll out an update that might fix 2 problems. By then, we already
fixed and developed a solution ourselves and have moved on to new bugs.

So far to date (for the past year), we found and fixed 48 bugs with the
game engine. This is frustrating because it put us one year behind
schedule for "Lost Colony."

While this is all a struggle, we as developers try to view as "challenges" so we can overlook the frustrations. It's very important for us to keep our motivation topped at all times. If we view these struggles as "challenges", then we are actually making a better game with better bug-fixing solutions."

 

 



I guess if we were to sum it all up, juggling between compromise and keeping a game current seem to be some of the top problems in independent development. As I mentioned, this is only skimming the surface of a few problems these guys face on a daily basis. So the next time you feel like pursuing game development take a second to think "Am I able to spend countless hours without income, just to fall into a pit of bugs, troubleshooting , and endless development?". If the answer is yes, than my next question is "Are you a sentient being, or a cyborg?"

 





Digg!Reddit!Del.icio.us!Facebook!Slashdot!Netscape!Technorati!StumbleUpon!Newsvine!Furl!Yahoo!Ma.gnolia!Free social bookmarking plugins and extensions for Joomla! websites!
Comments
Add NewSearch
Venix - Is Part II close ?????????????   | Administrator | 2007-12-20 13:28:55
Absolutely perfect , this article illuminates a lot of spots that were missing about game developing difficulties .

Thanks for your effort man and thanks to our interviewees that allowed us to know some struggles that made them stop and think again and again one day
Taiko!   | Super Administrator | 2007-12-20 15:12:28
If we were to take the examples of any indie's it would be these folks. To have stones thrown at you the whole way through development and still keep on pushing really displays alot of fortitude. These are the signs of committment that keep communities loyal to their game.
Deathwyrm   | 88.109.22.xxx | 2007-12-24 11:09:19
Yay go Marko, I know its been tough but I and severl others of the FoM community stand ready for suppor of what we are hopingto be a really cool game.
Minor Threat - Eww     | 71.237.246.xxx | 2007-12-25 02:18:45
Eww, combining an interview with an amazing developer making an amazing product, with an interview with a trash developer making a trash game.
Taiko!   | Super Administrator | 2007-12-25 09:54:11
Minor Threat wrote:
Eww, combining an interview with an amazing developer making an amazing product, with an interview with a trash developer making a trash game.
Hahah, well I'm not gonna ask you which is which.
"StateofShock" - Developer, - "StateofShock" - Devel   | 84.9.145.xxx | 2007-12-26 11:03:18
"StateofShock" - Developer, Lost Colony
Gee-willikers, ive seen burned cats more alive than that

put it with fom, you gotta be kiddin..
Minor Threat - re: "StateofShock" - D   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2007-12-25 19:18:01
Taiko! wrote:
Minor Threat wrote:
Eww, combining an interview with an amazing developer making an amazing product, with an interview with a trash developer making a trash game.
Hahah, well I'm not gonna ask you which is which.


Hehe. All you have to do is look at the quality of the screenshots of each, and you'll understand which is which

An almost stock image of torque really isn't impressive. I've seen their newer screenshots, and they aren't any more impressive. The shader resource for torque takes at most ten minutes to implement.
Anonymous - re: "StateofShock" - D   | 70.133.156.xxx | 2007-12-25 22:01:25
Quote:

put it with fom, you gotta be kiddin..


The article is not aimed at comparing the two games numb-nut. It's about struggles in game development.
KillJu - FOM blows!   | 131.59.200.xxx | 2007-12-26 09:03:31
I just checked out a youtube of this crap, the PVP is embarrasing!! Made me wanna puke That's what these guys get for not getting sponsorship
Taiko! - Each is Unique   | Super Administrator | 2007-12-26 10:56:27
Don't forget, one game is in the middle of a revamp and the other is still in early development. I've played both and will just say that each game has their pros and cons, but should both be given a little extra credit for taking on development with just a few team members and being short of income. Just remember this before you bash, regardless of what avenues they decide to take in regards to the software they use or the current product they have available.
Minor Threat - re: Each is Unique   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2007-12-26 15:16:56
Taiko! wrote:
Don't forget, one game is in the middle of a revamp and the other is still in early development. I've played both and will just say that each game has their pros and cons, but should both be given a little extra credit for taking on development with just a few team members and being short of income. Just remember this before you bash, regardless of what avenues they decide to take in regards to the software they use or the current product they have available.


I could seriously care less about anything else if the gameplay is good, but when a developer blatantly copies another developers idea's, they deserve no respect or recognition. When Lost Colony decides to stop copying planetside, thats when I will recognize them as legitimate developers.
DFGuy   | 90.144.37.xxx | 2008-01-03 02:24:27
I find you guys so horrible right here, the article could eventually mean that its such a pain to make a game, and even more a mmofps, and you are there saying that the guys make garbage, to go in your crap, if one game is worst than the other it could be FOM, simply only because of the combat system, the automatic combat system is somthing i don't like (if its not i retire that single previous thing, not the other things), even when its not recoil based FPS combat system it repulses me, i like when my single bullet goes where i aimed, but its not my subject here.

The thing is : what you guys says when you criticise like that its simply not contructive.

Well, im done, tell me if im wrong or you are not agree.
DrDysdy   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-16 11:05:56
Uhm, well, FoM combat is completely twitch based.
Covenant   | 63.238.76.xxx | 2008-01-08 15:29:32
I obviously find most of the responses from people here defined as trollies. StateOfShock is a great developer working for a promising well-funded company. You can't judge a game by one developer when there are several working on "Lost Colony." I have enjoyed all of their testing and the people. The game is more than a shader engine and far from being a stock image of torque. They have several functions developed such as hacking bases and allowing outfits to create their own bases in the game. Some of you have no clue on what you're talking about. You pretend to know but are just talking trash and using a public message base to get somekind of acceptance since you get none at home. Get a life. I strongly think this article was great and some of these reponses show what kind of garbage these developers have to put up with, especially from people have don't have a clue. Kudos to massivefps.com.
Minor Threat - re:   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-09 02:03:18
Covenant wrote:
I obviously find most of the responses from people here defined as trollies. StateOfShock is a great developer working for a promising well-funded company. You can't judge a game by one developer when there are several working on "Lost Colony." I have enjoyed all of their testing and the people. The game is more than a shader engine and far from being a stock image of torque. They have several functions developed such as hacking bases and allowing outfits to create their own bases in the game. Some of you have no clue on what you're talking about. You pretend to know but are just talking trash and using a public message base to get somekind of acceptance since you get none at home. Get a life. I strongly think this article was great and some of these reponses show what kind of garbage these developers have to put up with, especially from people have don't have a clue. Kudos to massivefps.com.


If they want they want to be taken seriously, they are going to have to put content out there. If all I see from them are stock images of torque (yes that is what they are), I'm not going to take them seriously and neither should anyone else. They are Indie developers and they won't admit it.

There is nothing wrong with being an indie developer, but for some reason they feel the need to lie about it. If they are so well funded, why are they using a $150 engine?

The people at Red planet LLC are suffering from delusions of grandeur, and they need to humble themselves if they are ever going to be able to put a finished product on the market and have it be successful.
Minor Threat - re: re:   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-09 02:05:14
Hmm that was weird

If they want they want to be taken seriously, they are going to have to put content out there. If all I see from them are stock images of torque (yes that is what they are), I'm not going to take them seriously and neither should anyone else. They are Indie developers and they won't admit it.

There is nothing wrong with being an indie developer, but for some reason they feel the need to lie about it. If they are so well funded, why are they using a $150 engine?

The people at Red planet LLC are suffering from delusions of grandeur, and they need to humble themselves if they are ever going to be able to put a finished product on the market and have it be successful.
Minor Threat   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-09 02:07:34
Just one last thing: How can you be so stupid, they were going to release the beginning of last year, and this is still all they've shown the public? Either they are insanely stupid, or they don't actually have anything to show the public
Moby   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-09 10:18:54
Covenant spelled it out and I agree. "Minor Threat" you first say that there's nothing wrong with these guys being indie developers, then you critize them for using a $150 Torque licensed engine. Actually, I did my research and found out they are using the $1,000 license AND the Havoc physics which is another $350,000, plus they have Sony and Microsoft Xbox 360 licenses too. Your postings show exactly what Covenant was saying, that some of you don't have a clue. Give these devs a break and layoff.
Minor Threat - Torque   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-10 07:13:57
Garage Games doesn't have a $1,000 dollar license for TGE, they've got the $750 dollar license, or the $1,500 TGEA license. They aren't using TGEA because they are using the Torque modernization kit(which is basically the same thing, it adds shader support, but the MK is a free resource).

I guarantee you that they aren't using the Havok physics engine.

Sony and Xbox 360? So are they releasing on PS3 and Xbox 360? LOL, I highly doubt it. Where would they get the money for all of this? gameSHOUT? I doubt it brings in enough revenue for all of this.
Moby   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-10 18:29:16
Minor Thread, again, you show exactly what Covenant was saying. You don't have a clue on what you're talking about. Garage Games has Lost Colony listed as using TGEA license (Torque Advanced) and a lot of the developing to make Lost Colony an MMOFPS was done by Red Planet. I guess you haven't played their beta with the other prepaid members. It's a damn shame that you have to come here and talk trash about them. I know one thing for sure, thousands of people are supporting Lost Colony whether you like it or not. It's a thorn in your side that you'll have to live with. Again, these developers at Lost Colony and FoM are working hard to bring us fun and enjoyment. It's a shame that people like you have to talk trash.
DrDysdy - re:   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-13 12:50:00
Moby wrote:
Minor Thread, again, you show exactly what Covenant was saying. You don't have a clue on what you're talking about. Garage Games has Lost Colony listed as using TGEA license (Torque Advanced) and a lot of the developing to make Lost Colony an MMOFPS was done by Red Planet. I guess you haven't played their beta with the other prepaid members. It's a damn shame that you have to come here and talk trash about them. I know one thing for sure, thousands of people are supporting Lost Colony whether you like it or not. It's a thorn in your side that you'll have to live with. Again, these developers at Lost Colony and FoM are working hard to bring us fun and enjoyment. It's a shame that people like you have to talk trash.


Why would I (or anyone with half a brain), pre-pay for a game I have seen ZERO content for? Well not zero, but the screenshots they do show, are for crap that I could play just by loading up my torque build.

Ok, I was wrong about them using TMK, but they aren't using a commercial license. If you want proof, fine, here it is:

A person with a commercial license:
http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=44226

Andy Hodges, owner of Red Planet LLC:

http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=77115

and I can't find Red Planet LLC anywhere on the GG site (not in the SDK owners forums, or anywhere else). So could you give me a link?
DrDysdy   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-13 12:53:55
God damnit, that's annoying. I'm Minor Threat btw.
using TMK, but they aren't using the Commercial license. If you want proof, here it is:
A commercial license owner:
http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=44226
Andy Hodges, owner of Red Planet LLC:
http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=77115

and I don't see Lost Colony anywhere on the GG site(not in the SDK owners forums, or anywhere else). So could you give me a link?
DrDysdy - re: re:   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 07:50:14
DrDysdy wrote:
Why would I (or anyone with half a brain), pre-pay for a game I have seen ZERO content for? Well not zero, but the screenshots they do show, are for crap that I could play just by loading up my torque build.

Everytime people talk bad about their game (Lost Colony) or try to tarnish them, their subscriptions rise and go through the roof. So, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. People find content as a pre-paid member of the game. Your basing your opinions on a few screenshots that are old at this point. The relevant question was also brought up on just how they made their continents. While you (obviously not knowing but assuming they use some Torque editor) claim you can make terrain in a matter of minutes, they actually used a "plotter" to map out the scenes and how a particular base can be assaulted. All of your opinions are based on assumptions without knowing the whole truth, which is why you spread mistruths about this game hoping to turn them into a mistrusted company as well as their developers. If your purpose is to tarnish them, it's out of order. I have played the game, seen the game, and it's nothing like you keep saying. This is my final reply as this article has now turned into nonsense thanks to you. The intention was much different.
DrDysdy   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 07:52:42
(continued...) hoping to turn them into a mistrusted company as well as their developers. If your purpose is to tarnish them, it's out of order. I have played the game, seen the game, and it's nothing like you keep saying. This is my final reply as this article has now turned into nonsense thanks to you. The intention was much different.
DrDysdy   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-14 15:47:13
I don't understand how they get any subscriptions when the only content they have out there are some Terrain screenshots. It just bewilders me.

The only thing that I could think of that would draw people into this game, would be the promise that it is going to be a carbon copy of Planetside.

Believe me, I'm not slamming Lost Colony for no reason. I believe they are scamming people, and once this comes out it's going to do horrible things for the Indie MMO genre. Not only that, but I detest developers who lack originality. They can't think of their own game concept, so they steal Planetside's. Thats just disgusting to me.
Moby - re:   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 19:21:02
DrDysdy wrote:
I don't understand how they get any subscriptions when the only content they have out there are some Terrain screenshots. It just bewilders me.


Because their beta tests have been right on and the content is there (more than just the screenshots).
Moby - re:   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 19:23:15
DrDysdy wrote:
Believe me, I'm not slamming Lost Colony for no reason. I believe they are scamming people

Kinda hard to do that one since they delivered in the beta tests. It's not a scam, just your fault for lack of info and fast to put down a game you know nothing about.
Moby - re:   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 19:24:23
DrDysdy wrote:
once this comes out it's going to do horrible things for the Indie MMO genre. Not only that, but I detest developers who lack originality. They can't think of their own game concept, so they steal Planetside's. Thats just disgusting to me.

Again, you don't have a clue (exactly what Covenant said). YOu think you know, but you're just talking crap about a game you know nothing about.
Moby - re:   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-14 19:30:05
DrDysdy wrote:
They can't think of their own game concept, so they steal Planetside's. Thats just disgusting to me.

I'm sure every WW2 game are the same too. But what's really disgusting is how you come here and just talk crap about Lost Colony. You have done nothing but spread mistruths, about the devs, insults, but then again there is a post about you in the paid members forum (you being 17 and all) and what you've done on other boards. You haven't learned how to behave yet. This is my final reply.
DrDysdy   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-15 06:11:03
lol, about me on other boards, huh? You were close with my age though, I'm actually 19. That's not really important though, unless you were somehow trying to insult me.

If what your saying is true, and they do actually have content, why are they hiding it? Why in the world would they not show it? Especially considering they are going to be launching the game (so they say), in March. This is exactly why I believe this game is a scam. No developer in their right mind, would release without putting out screenshots and videos. Like I said before, I'm worried about what will happen when they never release the game, or release a incomplete title. It will not have a good effect on the Indie MMO genre, thus not a good effect on me.

If they can show me they actually have content, I'll gladly shut the fuck up, but until then I'm going to do what's best for me and complain loudly about Lost Colony.

This will have to be my last post also.
Taiko!   | Super Administrator | 2008-01-14 21:30:11
I've increased the maximum characters allowed in comments, that way you guys don't get cutoff in the middle of heated debate . Sorry about that.
Moby   | 66.177.245.xxx | 2008-01-15 12:49:25
LOL, sorry Taiko!, but none of this has really been legitimate debate. Such some 19 year old who has come up with every self-seving excuse to bash Lost Colony with no facts. Hell, the guy (DrDysdy) says there is no content for the game just because he hasn't preordered to see it like everybody else. MassiveFPS started out as a good thing, but due to threads like this, it's beginning to tarnish the site. I know I won't be back here.
DrDysdy   | 71.237.246.xxx | 2008-01-15 21:45:45
If your going to stoop to personal insults I'll do the same.

"he hasn't preordered to see it like everybody else"
Was that really an intelligent decision on your part?

Again your not getting the point. Nobody who is SANE pays for something they've seen no content for. Shit, most people don't even buy things they don't get to try first.

That brings me to the question of why did you pre-order? It must have been the promise of being able to play a new Planetside, right?
Taiko!   | Super Administrator | 2008-01-15 20:21:52
Hmm... *notes down not to post multiple games in same article*
Write comment
Name:
Email:
 
Website:
Title:
UBBCode:
[b] [i] [u] [url] [quote] [code] [img] 
 
 
 
Security Image
Please input the anti-spam code that you can read in the image.

Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved.

 
Next >
© 2007 MassiveFPS.com - All Rights Reserved | Link Exchange | Contact Us | Advertise on this site